The 8 credit rule

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The 8 credit rule

Postby Guyvas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:31 am

I despise this part in our corpora. What good reason is there to have this in our corpora and why am I getting punished for going to and doing a bunch of Amtgard-related stuff.

I would like to replace
Members may earn no more than eight (8) credits per month.


to

either
A) no limit
B) 12 credits per month

especially with the fact that Westmarch days are 2 credits and then with my park playing on sundays and getting a bonus for that 1 weekend is 4 credits...with any kind of demo or travel that 8 credits is done in 3 weeks and the last week or 2 of a month doesn't count for anything (credit wise)

In addition, as a new pm I am having to verify whether numerous people who went to a demo to support Westmarch can get full credit for the effort they put forth.

Lastly Credits are one of the only free ways we can reward members for their efforts if they are putting in the effort to travel and do Amtgard events why shouldn't they get full credit

I would like for this to be put into consideration as an althing item for April
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Etah » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:04 am

The thing is, we don't want people at the COM to nitpick our Kingdom Corpora. So it has to be standard and It would be a waste of time to do this change in the Principality Corpora assuming we become a Kingdom in July. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Azus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:21 am

8 credits isn't standard. There's variation among corporas.

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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Guyvas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:27 am

A. We can easily explain why we thought 8 was too little.
B. With the Corpora having not been voted on STILL and it needed to be in place before we should have sent a bid off (in January) that is a non issue
C. We didn't reach 75 every month so once again this is a non issue so we could fix both corporas at once because we probably have another year with this one and this rule only limits.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Grimbold » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:40 am

So, i know Euric thinks that Gwendair has dropped the ball, and that we are going to fail to get kingdom at Clan this year. That does not mean we start planning our lives now for a failure. I strongly recommend that both you and Euric get positive and offer help, rather than get negative and offer complaint. Last thing we need now, is for half of the leadership of Westmarch to give up on this. How would you guys feel if the populus were acting the same way as you? Should i take down my "Westmarch for Kingdom" signature on Esam now? We are close, and like i have told you, there is alot of support from the other kingdom monarchs for our bid, buck up, cheer up, have some hope and faith.

Both the things you listed are not bid killers. No kingdom in amtgard has had anywhere near the numbers that Westmarch has had. If they shoot us down for not hitting 75 every month, then they all need to demote their lands too, cause none of them hit 75 every month either, as a matter of fact, none of them hit it even once.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Guyvas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:06 am

Multiple big names in Amtgard have said that if 75 in one park, one day didn't happen then a kingdom bid wasn't going to get approved...
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Grimbold » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:15 am

Ok, works for me. Don't have to bother with going to Clan then. Looks like i will try for SKBC now.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Grix » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:17 am

Grimbold wrote:We are close, and like i have told you, there is alot of support from the other kingdom monarchs for our bid, buck up, cheer up, have some hope and faith.


As a current member of the CoM, I would still hope that WM submits a bid this year. Reading these forums, it's difficult to believe that's going to happen. I've seen multiple calls since October from the populace to vote on the corpora that seem to have gone ignored. The only note I've seen from the monarch was a month ago stating that something was being worked on and that everyone should be patient.

If it helps, the Northern Lights posted a preliminary kingdom bid at the end of January last year, but didn't have a finalized bid mailed out until the beginning of July.

Grimbold wrote:Both the things you listed are not bid killers. No kingdom in amtgard has had anywhere near the numbers that Westmarch has had. If they shoot us down for not hitting 75 every month, then they all need to demote their lands too, cause none of them hit 75 every month either, as a matter of fact, none of them hit it even once.


You might want to take a look at the Northern Lights kingdom bid numbers.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Grimbold » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:32 am

Based on the numbers shown in that bid, if that is what we are shooting for, then we have failed. They had 80 or more somewhere every month.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Etah » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:57 am

I think the COM should consider the fact that by the time of Clan, we will have been doing this for two years. Within those two years I bet you 2/3rds of our Westmarch days or more will have hit the number.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Laoric » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:17 am

Etah wrote:I think the COM should consider the fact that by the time of Clan, we will have been doing this for two years. Within those two years I bet you 2/3rds of our Westmarch days or more will have hit the number.


That is a fair point and a good case can be made from it. Westmarch has proven that it can operate like a kingdom for a little over two years, despite smaller Westmarch-day events. All the weekend events get turnout near or over 100 and the two big events, FoM and Darkshore, draw in enough visitors to make a claim towards being an IK event.

Hopefully that can be argued successfully to the CoM.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Randall » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:25 am

Westmarch has a lot going for it, and should strongly consider submitting a bid at Clan this year.

The 75-per-month thing has been a cause of confusion. What is necessary is to put in a bid the way Northern Lights did: each month, there must be a single day where there are 75 people playing Amtgard at one location. It doesn't have to be the same location each time. It just has to be somewhere. Darkshore and Feast of Mars count. What does not count is to count every person who signed in over every week of a month and adding that together.

The way forward for Westmarch would be to confront this confusion directly -- state that Westmarch received mixed information previously, but redirected towards the correct goal once the principality clearly understood what is required in a bid. Then nail down a 75-person day once a month all the way up to Clan. That is no guarantee of success, but the Circle of Monarchs may be reasonable if they see that Westmarch isn't trying to fudge numbers, but instead misundestood -- and, more importantly, hit the goals once the goals were made clear. Especially given the rest of Westmarch's underlying strength, that to me is the way to structure a bid this year.

Secondly, you may be able to be certified by the Amtgard, Inc. Board of DIrectors (BLBOD) based on averages. If you have a 110 day one month, that may mean you can get by with a 40 day the next month -- that is an extreme example, and you don't want 40 to be your best, but hopefully that gives you the idea. I would recommend looking back over your last 12 biggest single-park days from Clan 2012 to Clan 2013, and see if the average for those twelve days is 75+. You might already be there!

I want to help with this. If someone can get me those numbers, that would be step one -- let's see if it's even possible. Knowing the situation now would give us all an idea of what sort of attendance is required for March, April, May, and June (and maybe July, if you extend the bid there.) Step two would be to communicate vigorously with the Amtgard, Inc. Board of Directors and ask them to sign off on your numbers (that would be huge) -- and to find out which twelve-month period they want to see represented. Step three would be to get your bid out there, professionally, and available to the Circle of Monarchs.

I am available via phone, email, Facebook, e-Samurai, etc. I will help as I can on this project. It may be that Westmarch is ready and strong -- stronger than it looks, stronger than it feels after so many years of pushing on this big project. Or it may be that more time will make the principality even stronger. What I want is whatever is best for Amtgard in California.

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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Guyvas » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:37 am

I helped to work on the averages for the last year and we averaged 89 unique players per month
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Scoot » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:41 am

To comment on the original issue, 8 credits is actually quite a bit, relative to some other entities.

Dragonspine says 7
Iron Mountains says 6, or 7 if there are 5 weekends in a month
Emerald Hills doesn't specify a max, but is oddly specific on what activities give what credits.
Burning Lands has no limit, nor does Northern Lights or Goldenvale. These appear to be standard-ish Burning Lands corporas modified for their specific purposes.
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Re: The 8 credit rule

Postby Randall » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:45 am

Guyvas wrote:I helped to work on the averages for the last year and we averaged 89 unique players per month


Again, we must be crystal clear here -- 89 unique per month could be 89/5, which is about 18 people showing up each week, which is not a kingdom. Do not use the "unique players per month" language, because it's messy. Instead, we need to know: take only the single best day for the month for each of twelve months, and post those numbers. Name the day specifically. For example:


November 24, 2012: 79 people at Desert Hills
December 8, 2012: 108 people at Gathering of the Dens
January 12, 2013: 93 people at Desert Hills
February 23, 2013: 72 people at Foxhole Peaks

Average for these four days: 88.

I hope that explains what is required.

- - -

As far as the original question, I don't think anyone will care whether or not the 8 credit rule exists. Some corporas have it, some don't. You could just remove it and do what the rulebook says on credits.
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