Scale armor?

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Scale armor?

Postby Garuda » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:08 pm

So since I'm new to the world of warrior, and hence heavy armor, i've been looking at possibilities for different armors i could make. Has anyone rated scale mail, or seen a suit that had been rated? I can't figure out how a suit of all-metal scale (made with Ring Lord's materials and pattern, like 4-in-1 chain but with a scale in place of every other ring) would be rated. Also, does anyone know if there is any standard for scale thickness?

Any feedback appreciated!
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Brigade » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:27 pm

Using metal "scales" in chain would probably be considered "augmented chain" .. have to see it to be able to rate it.

Most Scale armor I've seen is made from either thick (1/4") leather or metal "scales" that overlap. You take the leather "scales" and turn them into a suit by overlapping them. It's also a pain in the ass if you're not an experienced armorer.

Image

Lousy picture, but good close-up of the shoulder. The part underneath is "scale" (overlapping leather pieces) .. the shoulderpiece (as a whole) covers up the scale armor underneath (and it's attatched to the scales). That there is a Masterwork Piece .. earned a Master Dragon and a Master Owl .. so you can see how tough it is to do well.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Laoric » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:42 pm

You're in a land with arguably one of the best leather armor smiths in the game. Sit down with Kel and talk about what you want and see if he has any advice.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Thorin » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:04 pm

Ask the good people at Siar Geata. They have a suit of the scale mail you describe, my guess is that it goes for 4-5 points.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Brigade » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:00 am

Thorin wrote:Ask the good people at Siar Geata. They have a suit of the scale mail you describe, my guess is that it goes for 4-5 points.


Who has a scale suit out there?

And good call Laoric .. Kel's definitely qualified enough.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Thorin » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:02 am

I think Tremere made it, I'm pretty sure I've seen Yugovich and a couple others wear it. Though if Tremere made it theres a good chance he took it with him when he left.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Cadogan » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:04 am

That scale mail is now in Colorado with Tremere.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Garuda » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:25 am

Of course, I finally read the description of augmented chain... right before reading replies here. That sounds about right for what I had in mind.

I've been thinking about alternate chainmail weaves, too. Anyone familiar with japanese 6-in-1? not to be confused with european 6-in-1... I was thinking how totally sweet it would be to make 12-in-1, doubling each of the smaller links, and to use punched (i.e. un-cut) rings for the 1, which would make them significantly stronger. Anyone know if this would count as double mail?
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Mantis » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:28 am

One of life's underanswered questions is "how close can i get to 7 points without using plate?"

Japanese 6 in 1 is definately on teh right track, but we chainers had weight and mobility issues with it. 6 in 1 japanese is very perdy, but i promise it will weight 15% more than euro 6 in 1.

And you'd probably get 5 points for it. That's like selling China to Goodwill if you ask me.

*cough* plate? :)
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Gwydion » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:06 am

I got to seven without using plate. Not hard.


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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Azus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:24 am

Garuda wrote: I can't figure out how a suit of all-metal scale (made with Ring Lord's materials and pattern, like 4-in-1 chain but with a scale in place of every other ring) would be rated.!


This is one of those questions that results in a 5 page argument on e-sam every so often. If memory serves, those scales are 22g metal. So while some will say it's 4 points of augmented chain, others will point out the scales are too thin by the rulebook and downgrade. I don't think Westmarch-wide this is an issue, I think consensus on existing scale like this is 4 points, but if you travel to events you might find yourself loosing points on armor.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Brigade » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:50 am

Even starting @ base 4 or 5 (augmented, 6-1, or 8-2) it's usually prettty easy with chain to get to 6 or even 7 (Going for 7 means that you're at least hitting a 5 or 6 when you travel) with chain .. just rivet or close the rings off to get one extra, and superior quality/materials/construction will get you the other extra you might need.

I use the term "easily" very loosely here .. it does take a lot of effort. I think that suit of leather scale was a 6 .. however you can tell just from that small detail in the pic that months of work went into it.

Easiest way to hit 6 is with plate .. also it's usually the lightest way to get there as well. The Justicars have a 1/2 dozen or more suits of plate that's pretty well done that they break out for big events and banner wars .. and they are even pretty manueverable.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Garuda » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:22 am

Oh my.... so many options... I don't especially want to buy a breast plate, it totally lacks style to just purchase mass-produced armor. I may end up doing it though. Also would be cool to do 1/4" leather lamellar for 5 points.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Azus » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:39 pm

Kingsmaille + gambeson for 6 points isn't that hard, just time consuming.
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Re: Scale armor?

Postby Garuda » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:02 pm

I'm also trying to take weight and cost into consideration. 8-in-2 is simple and wouldn't necessarily be an exorbitant amount of money, but it weighs a ton...
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