ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Feedback and updates relating to the Westmarch kingdom corpora.

ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Keluric » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:34 am

ARTICLE VI: CROWN QUALIFICATIONS

Section 1. GENERAL INFORMATION
1. All candidates for the offices of Monarch, Regent, Champion, and Heir Apparent must earn a qualifying score (“qual”) in a certain number of categories in a cultural contest known as Crown Qualifications (“Crown Quals”, “quals”).
2. Crown Qualifications will be held once every six (6) months, at least one (1) week prior to crown elections.
a. One chapter shall host the Crown Qualifications, on a rotating schedule.
i. Chapters with Kingdom voting ability may host Kingdom Crown Qualifications on a rotating schedule from North to South.
ii. After all lands have hosted Crown Qualifications the cycle will start over.
iii. Any land has the option to skip their turn hosting Qualifications. Then the next land in line will host.
b. Each chapter may host its own Crown Qualifications on the same weekend, or within a week of Kingdom Quals.
c. Qualifying at the Kingdom Qualifications Westmarch level Crown Qualifications also qualifies a candidate at the local level.
3. The hosting chapter of Crown Qualifications shall appoint an autocrat by the Althing at least two (2) months before the election of the Crown. If no one wishes to autocrat Crown Qualifications, the autocrat shall be the highest ranking uninvolved officer according to the Order of Precedence.
4. The autocrat may adjudicate disputes and handle problems which arise to ensure the smooth running of Crown Qualifications.
5. The person running Crown Qualifications shall distribute the specific requirements and information about Crown Qualifications at least six (6) weeks prior to the event.

Section 2. TIME OF THE CROWN
1. The Time of the Crown is the period from when declarations are due to when a new Monarch is crowned.
2. Any person wishing to run for Monarch, Regent, Champion, Guildmaster of Reeves, or Heir Apparent must declare their intentions publicly and in writing to the Prime Minister one (1) week prior to Crown Qualifications.
3. Cultural and Fighting events of Crown Qualifications shall be held the week after declarations are due. The autocrat of Crown Qualifications may request literature entries over one (1) page be turned in up to two (2) weeks early.
4. The Crown Coronation event shall be run by the Regent within three (3) weeks after elections.

Section 3. QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS
1. All qualifications for office must be earned in the Crown Qualifications immediately preceding elections for that office.
2. Candidates for Monarch, Regent, Champion and Heir Apparent must meet the following requirements:
a. Maintain attendance and be a dues-paid member.
b. Pass the reeves test with a 75% score or better.
c. Pass an open book Corpora test with a score of 75% or better.
d. Meet the required number of cultural qualifications in the following:
Sub-Category Entries: Monarch Regent Champion Heir Apparent
Kingdom, Principality, Duchy 7 7 5 3
Barony 5 5 3 2
Shire 3 3 1 1
e. Participate in required number of fighting events in the following table:
Fighting Events: Monarch Regent Champion Heir Apparent
Kingdom, Principality, Duchy 5 5 5 3
Barony 3 3 5 2
Shire 3 3 5 2
3. If a candidate is unable to participate in the fighting events for any reason, fighting requirements may be waived with the joint agreement of the Monarch and the Autocrat of Crown Qualifications.
4. Candidates for a class Guildmaster position must pass a reeves test with a 75% or better.
5. Should no candidates qualify to run for an office, that office may be filled on a pro-tem basis by an Althing vote in order of precedence. All pro-tem officers must be voting eligible.
a. Those that qualified for office but did not declare.
b. Those that entered Crown Qualifications but did not qualify for office.
c. Any voting member.

Section 4. CULTURAL EVENTS
1. Cultural events are held as part of the crown qualifications process and shall consist of seven (7) categories, each of which is broken up into individual sub-categories.
2. Standard sub-categories are listed for each category in the following table. Additional sub-categories may be added if there is interest for at least three (3) entries and the sub-category is published along with the specific requirements for Crown Qualifications.
Category: Garb
Fighting Garb Made for wear on the battlefield
Court Garb Made for wear during Court or formal functions
Monster Garb Made for portrayal of a monster class
Other Garb Garb not covered within the other Garb events
Garb Accessory Belts, pouches, favors, but not jewelry.
Category: Art
Flat Art 2-D artistic medium (illustrations, painting, etc.)
3-D Art All three-dimensional artistic mediums
Needlework Embroidery, latch hook, cross-stitch, knitting, beadwork, etc. (Non-Machine)
Jewelry Items made to be worn as jewelry
Digital Media Photography, movies, web pages or digital enhanced art.
Category: Literature
Fiction Any fictional work
Non-Fiction Work based on factual events
Battlegame Description of a new game to play with Amtgard rules
Poetry Any type of Poetry
Category: Cooking
Main Dish Food served as a main course
Side dish Food or condiment served to accompany a meal
Beverage Any beverage and may be alcoholic
Dessert Food served primarily as a dessert
Category: Construction
Weapon Weapons legal for Amtgard use
Shield Shields legal for Amtgard use
Armor Any form of armor for Amtgard use
Banner Any banner construction
Active Construction Items made for battlefield use not covered by other events
Passive Construction Items not for battlefield use and not already covered by other events
Category: Bardic
Singing Singing with or without accompaniment
Instrumental Music Any musical performance with an instrument
Dance Any form of dancing or choreographed movement
Recitation Story, poetry, comedy, drama, etc.
Category: Rose
Rose Items donated that impact Amtgard.

3. All entries (or “items”) except cooking must be related in some way to Amtgard or the related genres. Documentation notating such is encouraged.
4. All cooking entries
a. Should be made primarily from scratch
b. Should include enough for all judges to get an adequate taste of the entry
c. Should include a copy of the recipe used, including a detailed list of ingredients for allergy considerations
5. All entries must be signed in within the time constraints set forth by the autocrat of Crown Qualifications.
6. All entries into Cultural Events must be the individual work of the entrant or be listed as a joint entry.
a. No more than one (1) qualifying entry may be a joint entry.
b. A joint entry is defined as an entry where less than 75% of the work was done by one person.
7. An entry is considered to have received a qualifying score if it receives an average score of 3.0 from the judges.
8. Only one (1) qualification may be received per contestant from each sub-category.
9. No item may be entered in more than one (1) sub-category.
10. Items entered in inappropriate sub-categories may be moved to other sub-categories by the autocrat of Crown Qualifications, with the consent of the majority of the judges.
a. Consultation should be given to the entrant by the autocrat of the Crown Qualification Event
11. Should beverages be alcoholic, they shall be judged at a different time and location than the other cultural events unless the location used permits alcohol. All judges for alcoholic beverages must be at least 21 years of age.
12. A strategic gaming category may be held with the approval of the Autocrat, including--but not limited to--games such as chess, pente, etc.
a. The winner of the strategic gaming category shall receive an extra cultural qualification providing at least five (5) people participate in the event.
b. A qualification earned from strategic gaming may only be counted once towards becoming Arts and Sciences Champion and will only receive a score of 3.0.

Section 5. JUDGING
1. Each entry in the Cultural Events of Crown Qualifications will be judged by a panel of at least five (5) judges appointed by the autocrat of Crown Qualifications.
2. All entries will be scored in increments of .1 on a scale of 1.0 to 5.0 by each judge, with 3.0 being a qualifying score and 5.0 being a perfect score.
a. If no score is given by the judge, then that is considered a null score, and will not impact the average score for that item.
3. All judges are expected to be unbiased and impartial.
4. Entries shall be judged on their own merits, and never in comparison to other entries.
5. Each entry will have all the judge's scores averaged to produce its final score.
6. An individual’s Arts and Sciences score shall be determined using the following:
a. In the case of multiple entries in the same sub-category, the highest scoring of them will be used to score that sub-category.
b. The top seven (7) sub-category scores will be added together to determine the Arts and Sciences Score.
7. The individual with the highest Arts and Sciences Score shall be the Cultural Champion.

Section 6. FIGHTING EVENTS
1. The Fighting Events (“Warmaster”) are held as part of the Crown Qualifications process and shall consist of five (5) events, as follows:
a. Single short sword
b. Double short swords
c. Short sword and shield
d. Great weapon, or any weapon over five feet in length
e. Open weapon, with no more than one weapon or one shield per hand.
2. All events shall be held on the same day as the Crown Qualifications Cultural Events.
3. All combatants must be signed in within the time constraints set forth by the autocrat of Crown Qualifications.
4. The overall winner of the Fighting Events shall be the Warmaster. The Warmaster is determined by giving three (5) points for first place in an event, two (3) points for second, one (1) point for third, and half a point (.5) for each individual win in the case of a tie, with the Warmaster determined as the combatant with the most points.

Section 7. MIDREIGN EVENT
1. The cultural competition (“Dragonmaster”), is held in the same manner as per the Cultural Events of Crown Qualifications, except where noted.
a. An individual’s Arts and Sciences score shall be determined by:
i. In the case of multiple entries in the same sub-category, the highest scoring of them will be used to score that sub-category
ii. The top five (5) event scores will be added together to determine the Arts and Sciences Score.
b. The individual with the highest Arts and Sciences Score shall be the winner.
c. The winner will be known as Dragonmaster until the next Dragonmaster competition.
2. The fighting events (“Weaponmaster”) are held as part of the Midreign event, in the same manner as the Warmaster tournament.
a. The winner shall be known as Weaponmaster until the next Weaponmaster tournament.
3. Both Dragonmaster and Weaponmaster will be held on the same day in the same location.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Laoric » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:58 pm

The formatting for the number of required entries/fighting categories per land and the list of different A&S categories could be cleaned up. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to make a table of some sort just to make it easier to read.

I have a clarification question about
c. Qualifying at the Kingdom Qualifications also qualifies a candidate at the local level.
. I know what this means, but it seems to imply that you have to qual for King in order for it to count at the local level. Just some wording to the effect of "A person may choose to qualify for their local land at Kingdom Qualifications rather than at local Qualifications" would seem to be a little more clear.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Keluric » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:53 pm

They are still in table format, not supported here on the boards, so it appears all jumbled up.

As for the other part, it is under the general information, and does not specify a particular office. I would chalk up the thought you are having largely from the fact that we are not accustomed to seeing 'kingdom' in our corpora. :)

That being said, I think altering it to say "Kingdom level Crown Qualifications" might be a better fit.
'Kingdom Qualifications' does sound a bit on the shorthand/slang side.

Good catch, thanks!
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Mannanan » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:37 pm

Section 6.4 needs revision.
4. The overall winner of the Fighting Events shall be the Warmaster. The Warmaster is determined by giving three (5) points for first place in an event, two (3) points for second, one (1) point for third, and half a point (.5) for each individual win in the case of a tie, with the Warmaster determined as the combatant with the most points.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby sirnakita » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:38 pm

Here are my issues:

1. Why are the tournaments requiring short weapons? Shouldn't that be decided by the autocrat/participants of the tourneys? It is a disadvantage for someone who uses long weapons to be forced to use a short weapon. This would seem like it should be left open to the combatents' preference.
2. If there is going to be a limitation on the Open fighting tournament, it should be renamed. Restricting a participant from having a down sword, for example, contradicts the "open" category inference in the name. Again, it seems like a personal preference versus a true open category.
3. Can another category be added to the cooking cutural events to include an appetizer entry?
4. Can the scoring for the cultural entries be changed to a scale of 0 to 5? Judges should have the right to score a 0 on illegal weapons or entries that don't fit the category.

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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Fiks » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:38 pm

My opinion is that the short sword requirement should stay for single, flo and board. For those corporas that list what the Warmaster/crown tournament events should be, the ones I've seen appear to hold short as the standard for these events. I think we should follow suit. If someone is serious about wanting to score well in the Warmaster, or any tournament for that matter, perhaps they should practice their short stick game. And since the candidates are still only required to participate, winning optional, someone reliant on long weapons and forced to go short for these three events will still be able to be qualified for their declared position.

On your second point, Nakita, I assume you're referring to having a down sword in the same hand that is wielding a shield? Which is still legal by the 7.7 rulebook, as far as I can tell. Going to guess the one-item-per-hand requirement is to quell some sort of cheesy combination, which like you said, is kinda counter the open descriptor. Can't remember if this was brought up at the committee meetings or not.

Side dish and appetizer both? I'm personally ambivalent; I could see that additional category being advantageous to someone who is cooking-inclined in their qualifications, but maybe it is best for them to be forced to go outside their cooking comfort zone? Is that something we should dictate in the corpora, though?

The zero for cultural scores I do recall being discussed, but I don't remember the reasonings. Hopefully someone with a better recollection can recount those.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby sirnakita » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:07 pm

My contention is that the decisiion on what weapons are allowed and in what combination should be up to the Quals Coordinator and not dictated by the Corpora. It seems dictatorial to me to put restrictions on the weapons allowed in tourneys. If a cheesy combination is used in a tourney, for example, then the opponent facing that combination should be able to defend against it and would probably have an advantage in winning the tournament. If a person is striving for higher orders of the Warrior or Warlord title, then they shouldn't be opposed to fighting against a multitude of weapon types. It seems like it is a personal preference, not something that is beneficial to the land.

As for cultural entries, shouldn't a person have as many categories as they can for entries? The idea behind Qualificaitons is to show the candidate's willingness to do the job. Suggesting that someone who is accomplished in a certain category do something out of their comfort zone is counter intuitive to the intent behind the event.

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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Hannoske » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:19 pm

Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): Allowing tourney coordinators to change fighting categories for warmaster and weaponmaster - Strongly against; Removing the one item per hand restriction in open - In favor; New cooking category for quals - I could be convinced.

On the topic of weapon options in the tournaments, I believe we need to have the tournaments standardized within the Kingdom and between the Kingdoms. Streaks and tourney wins in these tournaments qualify people for Warlord/Knighthood. We as an up and coming Kingdom need to ensure that we are meeting the same standards as other Kingdoms, and striving to surpass them. The current standard across Amtgard is short swords in the restricted categories. I honestly would prefer if all my opponents fought with long swords, I would almost always win. But I would not feel good about it, because my matches were easier than the next guy in Kingdom X that did it right (more on why long swords suck at the bottom). That aside, the biggest reason we limit it to short swords and medium shields, is to be fair. If we are all using the same equipment, no one gains an advantage. You have to be better than your opponent, not their equipment.

I agree that we should have absolutely no extra restrictions (outside of what is in the rules of play) in the open category. We should eliminate the one item per hand rule. Fighting with what you want, how you want is the whole point of that category. I am even open to allowing people to use projectiles in this category (I wouldn't advise it, but might allow it).

To bring it to a point: The Weaponmaster and Warmaster tournaments should meet the inter-kingdom standard. We need to be directive and specific in these tourneys, and not let whoever is in charge that week deviate from the national standard because they don't like short swords or whatever other reason they have.

I am fully in favor of adding extra categories that do not count toward the tournament win, nor to streaks towards orders of the warrior. I am fully in favor of holding other tournaments, incorporating other styles and fun twists. But please do not bring another excuse to discredit our fighters. I can think of a couple single style sword knights that are still made fun of today, because they were the best of their style, and got knighted from it. I will continue to make fun of them. I will consider them a Knight for what they have accomplished and who they are, but I will not consider them a Warlord, for they have not mastered Amtgard Combat. They have not met the inter-kingdom standard.

As for the Cultural competition category, I would need more research, but the questions I would ask are:
-Do other Kingdoms have this category?
-Do we as a (future) Kingdom have enough potential entries to warrant a separate category?
-What do we as a (future) Kingdom see the purpose of these A&S tournaments to be?
--Are we competing and determining our best A&S craftsmen to distinguish with knighthood?
--Are we demanding excellence from our potential leaders, ensuring they are well rounded in the game?
--Are we just adding a roadblock so people have to put in a little effort before they run for a position?
-By adding this category, are we just making it easier for people to qualify?
-By adding this category, are we clarifying a specific way the item might be judged? (example, Jewelry can be considered a garb accessory, but can be more accurately judged if it is in a separate category)

What I expect from the A&S tournaments is a way for our artisans to compete and show off. To prove to those around them, they are the best. For the quals portion, we need a way to ensure our leaders are well rounded, and capable people in the aspects of the game they will be awarding people for. I hate having to qualify for office with A&S. But I think it does great things for the game. You can't really appreciate how much effort goes into a good set of chainmaille until you try and make it. You can't understand the complexities of appliqué until you have attempted it. You won't get the subtle flavors in a proper stew or the joint pain evident in cross stitching. You have to try these things to understand them and respect them enough to properly reward those that are putting forth that effort. If we have seven cooking categories that means that someone who is good at cooking can qualify for Prince/Duke without having to do anything but cook. This doesn't prove much to the populace, or engender confidence from me. A potential King/Prince/Duke needs to show capability in multiple areas.

So, should we allow another category? Probably. But make sure we are doing it for the right reasons, and the right way.


As for why long swords suck, due to physical limitations brought on by using a longer weapon, many shots cannot be thrown (properly) with a long sword single handed. Additionally, the change in angles provided when you swing a long sword makes it almost impossible to fight close. Limiting you to mid and extended ranges. This forces most long sword fighters to develop a retreating style which is also predictable and easy to beat (if you are in shape). With a long sword and shield, you basically cannot throw inside shots. Further, because of where the sword wraps on a wrap shot, a long sword fighter either has to sacrifice the advantage of range to throw a proper wrap, or have the weapon not wrap properly, and make it easier to block. Keep in mind also that the balance on a long sword is farther down the sword, making it so that your shot mechanics require more force generation to swing at the same speed. Ever wonder why a dagger is easier to swing than a sword? Weight isn't the answer.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Hannoske » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:43 pm

New post for the scoring question.

I do not see the point to making it 0-5 vs 1-5. All you are doing is adding a psychological importance. In our current scale, a 1 is a 0. They are the same thing. It is already pretty clear, if your item scores below a 3, you have failed. You got an F. Your item does not meet standards. How far below a 3 tells them just how bad they suck. If they score a 1, they should know they could not have done worse. They are the bottom. How does a 0 help Amtgard, or the system? It might make them feel a little bit worse. But the message is the same. We could move to a scoring system like classes. You get an A+ if you score 100 and a F if you score 59.9. What the scale is doesn't really matter.

Of note though, if it is decided to move the scale to 0-5 rather then 1-5, we also need to consider whether we keep a qualifying score to be a 3. If we move to the 0-5 scale and keep quals at a 3, we are in fact implying that a minimum passing score is better than average. To keep the standard the same, and simply change the scale, we would need to change the rating system to 2.5 to qual. Again, I suggest we compare to the existing Kingdoms, and try to ensure we are meeting/keeping with the national standard.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Niveus » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:19 pm

Hannoske wrote: Whole bunch of Text and stuff.



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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby SirEuric » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:57 am

I really think there absolutely needs to be a distinction between qualifications and Dragonmaster. I have always believed and understood a qualifying item should be a functional, average or above in quality item that has obviously had some effort put into it. While a stick figure entered into 2-d art drawing should never be a 3 , a simple single hemmed tunic entered into fighting garb should absolutely be a 3. Dragonmaster is where you put the very best you have to offer, qualifications is where you show you can produce a functional item for this game.

I know that there are those that maintain it should always be of highest quality, but where does it state you should be an Arts and Sciences God to take a leadership role in this game?
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Jace » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:36 am

SirEuric wrote:I really think there absolutely needs to be a distinction between qualifications and Dragonmaster. I have always believed and understood a qualifying item should be a functional, average or above in quality item that has obviously had some effort put into it. While a stick figure entered into 2-d art drawing should never be a 3 , a simple single hemmed tunic entered into fighting garb should absolutely be a 3. Dragonmaster is where you put the very best you have to offer, qualifications is where you show you can produce a functional item for this game.

I know that there are those that maintain it should always be of highest quality, but where does it state you should be an Arts and Sciences God to take a leadership role in this game?



This. ^
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Lady Tamara » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:03 am

SirEuric wrote:I really think there absolutely needs to be a distinction between qualifications and Dragonmaster. I have always believed and understood a qualifying item should be a functional, average or above in quality item that has obviously had some effort put into it. While a stick figure entered into 2-d art drawing should never be a 3 , a simple single hemmed tunic entered into fighting garb should absolutely be a 3. Dragonmaster is where you put the very best you have to offer, qualifications is where you show you can produce a functional item for this game.

I know that there are those that maintain it should always be of highest quality, but where does it state you should be an Arts and Sciences God to take a leadership role in this game?


I also agree, as there are some people that just cannot craft to save their life, and yet would make a great leader. I also think that needing to pass a reeves test to be the Regent is not necessary. Regents duties often fall way outside the range of fighting. Here Crafting is a much needed skill.

Many of our members do not fight and yet support our lands and Kingdom, I feel that they should also be able to hold a non fighting office with out the burden of the reeves test. Just my two cents.
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Azus » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:19 am

Regents are next in line in Order of Precedence; if the monarch takes the day off then it's the regent who is top dog. Likewise if the monarch steps down or is kicked out, the regent becomes top dog for the rest of the reign. So, the Regent should know the rules, ie pass the reeves test)
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Re: ARTICLE VI - Crown Qualifications

Postby Collin the Red » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:09 am

Sir Euric +1
Azuz +1

Regent should know the RoP.
I think all 6th levels should also know RoP or be limited to 5th (JMHO)
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