Petition for Impeachment

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Petition for Impeachment

Postby Guyvas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:55 pm

I have been presented with a petition to impeach Ka'a as monarch. The petition has been signed by 9 out of 24 voting eligible members. The corpora requires 20% which is 5 people.
Ka'a is being charged with dereliction of duty, bullying, and violation of the Amtgard code of conduct (6. Creating a hostile environment detrimental to the enjoyment of the group as a whole)
This will be addressed at the April Althing (April 6th) at 2pm.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Dame Ailanthus » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:20 pm

The petition looks like it was pasted from another site. Are the people's names listed below the signers, or just people who viewed it?
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby TB » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:18 pm

Do we have anymore details as to what the "dereliction of duties" are?

Is this going to simply be a witch hunt/smear campaign against a person who stepped up into office and did their job? What is the great misdeeds that have transpired?

Is this really a case of the monarch doing a horrible job during their reign, or is this just the people that have nothing better to do at the park finding an inward "threat" to try and remove so they can go on doing whatever they want behind the monarch's back and not get called on the myriad underhanded and sometimes illegal shenanigans they like to do?

If Kaia is so horrible, why has it taken 4 months for this to come to a head?
Why was she elected in the first place?
Why are details not being provided so that the populace can informed decisions?


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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Randy » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:19 pm

Hopefully there is some evidence, we don't need to become the next Crystal Groves
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Grimbold » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Too late.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Dame Ailanthus » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:17 pm

Important thing to remember is that this is only 9 people out of the 100+ players in Westmarch. Let's not blow it out of proportion, and blow up the whole kingdom, or even the one land over it.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Guyvas » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:28 pm

She has been accused of bullying which has made multiple members feel uncomfortable and has pushed at least 2 members away from the park.
It took awhile because this is something people don't just do because they get bored. It took a lot of thought and effort. Also people wanted to see if things would change after our meeting and a lot of people were better but she publically berated a member the next week instead of trying to change and treat people better.
The petitioners have a lot to prove but this is no witch hunt. People have actual grievances.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Laoric » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:38 pm

Guyvas wrote:She has been accused of bullying which has made multiple members feel uncomfortable and has pushed at least 2 members away from the park.
It took awhile because this is something people don't just do because they get bored. It took a lot of thought and effort. Also people wanted to see if things would change after our meeting and a lot of people were better but she publically berated a member the next week instead of trying to change and treat people better.
The petitioners have a lot to prove but this is no witch hunt. People have actual grievances.


Do you intend to actually list the grievances or is it your intent to confront her and not give her any opportunity to prepare a response?

Do you intend to allow the populace to have enough time to process the evidence or do you intend to demand a vote immediately after providing the evidence?

See how these questions generate response bias? This is why it's important that you make an effort to do stuff like this cleanly and fairly.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Randy » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:02 pm

I won't be able to attend the allthing to speak, as I will be underway. But I would like to point out that while this may be a "local" park issue, I think this is something that needs to be investigated on a Kingdom basis. Why? Because an accusation of bullying has repercussions FAR beyond one park. As anyone can see with Crystal Groves. I personally like Ka'a and don't believe she is really capable of actual bullying. BUT, I don't get to visit the north and thus would like to post the definition here:

http://www.stopbullying.gov/what-is-bul ... efinition/

In order to be considered bullying, the behavior must be aggressive and include:

An Imbalance of Power: Kids who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people.
Repetition: Bullying behaviors happen more than once or have the potential to happen more than once.


Now, I'm not saying she isn't bullying. And I certainly can't say she is or isn't running people off the field. I don't really know about what did or did not occur during the meeting Guyvas posted. BUT, the accusation of bullying has carried a 1 year suspension from Amtgard in other Kingdoms. I think its important to understand the terms we are using when we accuse people of things AND ensure we give every opportunity for someone to correct their actions. In most cases, change is not something that one can immediately do. Its not like a light switch, you can't just to one day decide to no longer offend people or hurt their feelings. Its something that takes constant effort and dedication. The WORST thing that someone could experience is a relapse or a lapse in judgement that wipes away all their effort in peoples eyes. Trust me, i've been there. In some degree I am still there now.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Porkins » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:35 pm

I believe that bullying is not quite an impeachable offense(until it has been substantiated). It is however a ban worthy offense(upon investigation) which falls directly into my purview as Kingdom Monarch. I will ask that you forward any and all evidence or testimony that you have gotten which lead to having it put on the impeachment to me to verify and determine if bullying has happened.

Since determining that that is outside the scope of impeachment of officers ,until determined valid, I ask those two points be dropped ,pending review, and an official case for dereliction of duty be made public so that people who may have to vote by proxy and cannot attend the discussion can determine their own opinions and discuss.

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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Guyvas » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:05 am

I think the impeachment is a local land issue
But
If there is to be an investigation of Ka'a I would greatly prefer the Ombudsman be involved to insure that this issue is dealt with thoroughly and fairly
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Porkins » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:53 am

That is indeed quite serious because the ombudsman is specifically for things like sexual harassment, aggressive physical contact outside of the bounds of normal play and inappropriate relationships between adults and minors. Even then, the Ombudsman would work with me as am the one who could resolve the situation. Your preferences and thoughts are noted, however Impeachment of an officer while a local land issue does not allow for people to essentially vote to see if a member has been bullying.

Also the Ombudsmen program is not a replacement for the official channels when it comes of things like this, so as soon as you can forward me all the information you have gotten so far and I will begin an investigation.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby sirnakita » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:04 am

Please provide the location in the corpora where the Kingdom monarch has the authority to impede a local land action. I did a search and there is no mention of the Kingdom's authority over local land issues unless there is a violation of the corpora.

If you want to do a separate investigation regarding banning Ka'a, that is fine. However, the local land should have the option of either continuing their Althing proceding or postponing it.

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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Guyvas » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:56 am

The ombudsman is for any issue that he is needed. I know you basically nicely said that what I say doesn't matter but I want this done fairly and the ombudsman will do that.
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Re: Petition for Impeachment

Postby Porkins » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:28 pm

sirnakita wrote:Please provide the location in the corpora where the Kingdom monarch has the authority to impede a local land action. I did a search and there is no mention of the Kingdom's authority over local land issues unless there is a violation of the corpora.

I believe that would be Article 1 section 2 part 4 :... all chapters within the Kingdom are considered to be part of the Kingdom and under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom officers and these bylaws.
The amendment I made to the althing is by no means saying do not have the Althing but realigning the vote to what an Althing can cover. We do not vote to see if bullying has occurred, it either has and steps need to be taken or it hasn't. It people would like it to read that they are unsatisfied with the job she has done and want her removed that is fine, however allegations of bullying are a separate matter entirely and not something I am inclined to leave to voting.

Guyvas wrote:The ombudsman is for any issue that he is needed. I know you basically nicely said that what I say doesn't matter but I want this done fairly and the ombudsman will do that.

That is true, but he is supposed to work with the people who are supposed to make the decisions anyways, in this case me. Your assumption of my inability to handle this fairly implies that I am unable to properly conduct myself as an officer and/or that I don't have the proper restraint needed to check my own biases either through being self critical, by taking in the advice of others, or even having a third party handle it. Presuming incompetence will leave you with a very cynical view of the world.
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