Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with RoP

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Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with RoP

Postby deimos » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:35 pm

Remove Article II, Section 3, Subsections 2 and 3 and renumerate remaining items.
Article II, Section 3, Subsection 2 wrote:"If scheduled Amtgard events preclude members from playing a class, then they may still sign in as that class."

Article II, Section 3, Subsection 3 wrote:"If serving as a reeve precludes members from playing a class, they may still sign in as that class."

As it was pointed out from a member of the v8 Rules of Play committee, this item in our Corpora is out of compliance with the Amtgard Rules of Play.

Rules of Play, v8.0 wrote:"You must play the class you wish to gain credit in."


As our contract states that we will abide by the RoP, this is a change we must make to remain compliant.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Ubrik » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:33 pm

On a related note what about 1/4 credits for fighter practice? I've heard it mentioned a couple of times that there is nothing in the ROP that would enable the existence of partial credits.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Collin the Red » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:52 pm

From RoP 8.0:
If you wish to fight or participate in a battlegame, you must
conform to one class for each game. A person may advance in
level in a class after having the requisite credits and passing a
class test administered by your class Guildmaster. Only one
attendance credit may be given on a single day. You must play
the class you wish to gain credit in. If no class is played but
fighting takes place, you may take a Warrior credit.

By this, Fighter practice=1.0 warrior credit, A&S=zero credits. But as Color is not a level-able class AND we should track people that Craft, I would say 1 color credit would be sufficient to show attendance.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Fiks » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:28 pm

As far as I can tell there's nothing in the rulebook that deals with "color credits" but they exist in the ORK for attendance purposes. There's a short section dealing with a category of players called "color" on page three and that's the only reference to that category of players that I've found. Also I haven't been able to find anything that deals with typical A&S meetings. So then, I think amending the corpora to specify A&S attendance getting color credit would not be contradictory to the RoP.

And while we're touching on this article and section and RoP compliance, I have in my notes this proposed change:
Section 4, Item 4: Change to read ‘A person’s membership may be terminated by joint agreement of the Kingdom Monarch and either the Prime Minister or Guildmaster of Reeves.’


The RoP specifies on page four how someone's membership from the game is terminated via a ban handed down by their park's/kingdom's officers. It also handles the officers canceling a ban, so we might consider adding a line describing that after Item 4 as well. Also there could be room for discussion about Article V: GOVERNMENT, Section 3. The Althing, Item 3, sub item e which specifies a terminated member getting their membership restored with a 2/3 majority vote in the Althing. I think it's still compliant since it only describes the required procedure for the Althing to handle the ban.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Lady Tamara » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:03 am

If following the Rules of Play, would this also have to change the number of credits earned per month? If you get a credit for each time you play a class, then how can you be compliant if that number is limited?
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Fiks » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:05 am

Lady Tamara wrote:If following the Rules of Play, would this also have to change the number of credits earned per month? If you get a credit for each time you play a class, then how can you be compliant if that number is limited?

The RoP doesn't dictate that when a class is played you get a credit. It only specifies that you earn one attendance credit a day, and if you want a credit in a given class you must play it. I'll quote the entire section on credits in the RoP. With what is in this section of the RoP, it seems to me that credit limits set by Kingdom corporas are still legal. If we should have limits or not is a different discussion that has been had many times before, and if we wanna rehash it, another thread would be appropriate I feel.

RoP V8 wrote:Credits and Levels
If you wish to fight or participate in a battlegame, you must conform to one class for each game. A person may advance in level in a class after having the requisite credits and passing a class test administered by your class Guildmaster. Only one attendance credit may be given on a single day. You must play the class you wish to gain credit in. If no class is played but fighting takes place, you may take a Warrior credit. All classes gain new abilities and levels at the following rate:
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby thistledown » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:14 am

And if this proposal gets rejected, what then?
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Ubrik » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:44 am

In a similar vein are we even allowed to grant travel or extra event credits? I just speculating but I think most arguments that could be made for travel could also be made for 1/4 credits and visa versa.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Fiks » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:59 pm

thistledown wrote:And if this proposal gets rejected, what then?

We could always try it again—there's twelve months in a year so twelve minimum Althings—and maybe tweak the verbiage if we get feedback from nay-sayers. I think it'd be on us, the kingdom, to get our corpora in line with the RoP. It's on the CoM and Amtgard, Inc. to see that the Kingdoms are in line. Those two organizations have the final play here. While I don't imagine they'd immediately move to revoke our contract, I for one don't want to have a representative of either group come to us and go, "So hey, about your corpora re: the RoP..." Why not be pro-active?
Ubrik wrote:In a similar vein are we even allowed to grant travel or extra event credits? I just speculating but I think most arguments that could be made for travel could also be made for 1/4 credits and visa versa.

So yes, there's nothing there prohibiting granting of extra credits. By that logic, there's nothing there that prohibits partial credits. Let's ask: do we even need them? Is having partial credits something that helps or hurts the Kingdom? What are the other Kingdoms doing? What does the existing infrastructure (ORK) allow? Does it matter?
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Ubrik » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:06 pm

I have no idea personally, I just thought I'd bring up points that have occurred to me and points I have heard mentioned by others. Now just seems to be the time to reexamine our credit policies.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby glyn aidan » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:51 am

Fiks wrote: What are the other Kingdoms doing? What does the existing infrastructure (ORK) allow? Does it matter?


Oooh! Other kingdoms! I can offer at least a little perspective on that.

The park I came from in Goldenvale always did full colour credits for all A&S nights, as I think most of the parks do there when they hold them. Only colour credits were allowed. If we held an althing after field at another location (often VERY necessary in the winter) then people who hadn't attended field were allowed to also sign in for the day as colour. When/if we had fighter practices, they were generally given full warrior credits, but no other classes allowed. My park also had a second full field every week on thursdays (they've switched to wednesday since I left) as well, which is why fighter practices were irregular at best. Being a full field with quests/battlegames, they were full class credits like our primary sunday field.

There is no credit cap in GV, and we didn't have people taking so many credits because of the lack of cap that it was a problem. If someone is participating in games and using their class abilities, and learning their class, then I've never seen an issue with them getting the credits for it. I've seen people bounce around New York state to hit the parks that are reachable to field 2-4 times in a week, and power through levelling- but they were playing the class the entire time, and learning it well. Having spread my levelling of some classes over years of playing them on and off and learning them slowly and thus sometimes poorly, seeing someone immersed in a class like that produces someone who can actually play it properly most times, so why punish their dedication to the game with credit caps?

Travel credits are a rarity in GV, tho, and have popped up only a few times recently in a couple groups as incentives to visit other parks, but they're not generally affixed to events or widely used.

The ORK3 allows entering any credit number, so you can enter 0.25, 0.5, 1, 3, 14, or 25. So that in itself isn't an issue at the moment at least. (Yes, I gave someone 25 credits to test this. Yes, I deleted it, don't worry, I'm not abusing my powers.)
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby sir blackthorn » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:04 pm

If we can only have one credit a day and we must play the class then travel credits would be a violation of the V8 Rules of Play.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Lady Tamara » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:40 am

I am currently running the Amtgard Club at the local Jr College. We meet twice a week for four hours and will be starting class battles this week. (We have only been meeting two weeks and worked on body mechanics and control with short swords) I have been counting them as fighter practices, but with the beginning of our including class battles, I would like to give full credit each time we meet. This could potentially give them 4 credits per week, if the visit both Thor's Refuge and Mistyvale on weekends.

This means they would cap out within 2 weeks of playing. As it was stated, the RoP say you gain one attendance credit per day in the class you played, it seems that capping is denying players the credits they earned. I suppose we should ask those that wrote the RoP to see if it does or does not go against what they require?

Many other lands hold their park days ore than once a week, and full credits are given on both days.

RoP V8 wrote:Credits and Levels
If you wish to fight or participate in a battlegame, you must conform to one class for each game. A person may advance in level in a class after having the requisite credits and passing a class test administered by your class Guildmaster. Only one attendance credit may be given on a single day. You must play the class you wish to gain credit in. If no class is played but fighting takes place, you may take a Warrior credit. All classes gain new abilities and levels at the following rate:
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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Ubrik » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:53 am

"Only one attendance credit may be given on a single day"
Blackthorn, maybe there is wiggle room with the word attendance? After all, we are giving out "travel" and "event" credits.

Lady T, I don’t see where the rop forces you to gain a credit. "May be given" "may take"

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Re: Corpora change proposal: change credits to comply with R

Postby Collin the Red » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:35 pm

So Do we have language to vote on this weekend? or is this for the April Althing?
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