Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core status

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Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core status

Postby deimos » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:42 pm

The current corpora does not have a mechanism to remove a land's "Core Land" status in the event they are demoted (self or otherwise) back to the Shire level.

Add to the Corpora, Article VIII, Section 1, Subjection 1.c"
"1.c.iii: : If a Core chapter is demoted to Shire status either by Althing or by self-demotion, that chapter's Core Status may be revoked by 2/3rd majority of an Althing. If the land was demoted via Althing, the removal of Core Status must be voted upon as a separate item."

Please discuss.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Fiks » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:44 pm

Do we want to specify that the demotion by Althing and removal of Core status are to be handled on two separate Althings (x >= 1) months apart? My thinking there is that this would allow the land more time to right the wrong that led to their demotion in the first place. How much granted time between Althings is enough for wrongs to be righted?
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Lady Tamara » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:00 am

I would like to suggest a year, this would allow for a "changing of the guard" in the BOD to allow fresh eyes to look over the changes.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Laoric » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:01 am

Shouldn't the grace period be the period between the first failed audit and the second? If you fail an audit and can't get your stuff together 6 months later, how is another 6 months or a year really gonna help?
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Ka'a Acklie » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:18 pm

Also, things easily get forgotten within a year and the change of monarchy. 6 months should be enough for them to realize there is a problem and to get their shit together
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Porkins » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:11 pm

At first I was against this because I failed to see the purpose, but after review any park that gets demoted to shire without signs of improvement should probably be more concerned with improving the home park over Kingdomwide politics(also they get to enjoy lower dues). I also find the 2/3 majority to be a sufficient hurdle as it is hard to get 2/3 agreement on anything other than feast costs.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Azus » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:12 pm

Random ramblings I don't really have time to type up now:

July-December 2014, the Barony of Azusistan's numbers suck. January 2015 they turn in an audit missing ledger, quals results, and a failure to meed minimum number. February 2015 the bod gives a fail. Jan-June 2015 their number still suck, they meet half the time, they missed the entire month of March, and their Pm turns in a craptastic audit July 2015. August of 2015 the BOD gives a second fail. Since there's not enough time to put it on the next allthing, vote for demotion of Azusistan to Shire is put on the October allthing - which also gives the monarchy and populace of Azusistan over a month to argue on caamtgard, Westmarch/facebook, and in person why they should not be demoted. And... We're slow to demote a land anyway. Will more time help? The vote in October 2015 reflect problems that likely started over a year before.

Removing core land status makes sense; it also sorta feels like adding insult to injury. Also, there are lands that drop down to shire that still have members active in the rest of Westmarch; there are lands dropping to shire that don't. A way to pick and choose which lands keep or lose core status makes a lot of sense. And... we need to be careful because bias can creep in, or at least the perception of bias be seen even if not there.

Point? no point. just rambling thoughts.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Water Hammer » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:31 pm

We have active dues paid members of Westmarch who just happen to be in less-than-active parks. Do we punish them and withhold voting privileges as a strong-arm to help them get their parks moving, or do we allow "At-Large" membership or some other way for people who wish to contribute at the kingdom level by-pass the land requirements to participate in the Kingdom.

Not sure where my thoughts are headed but this bee flew through my head on the way to something important a few moments ago.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby deimos » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:03 pm

A land that has a failed 2 audits in a row has failed to right the ship in 1 year period. When a land has failed two audits in a row due to not submitting an audit, there is not much that can be done to help them. If the land has tried twice and failed - but still made the effort, then there is room for leniency. he corpora requires a corpora vote after the 2nd failed audit. At that Althing item, the land in question has the right to make a statement on their behalf. If there is a rebuilding effort or other good faith showing, the populace has been historically lenient.

Regardless of a viewpoint on why a land might be failing, the corpora has no provision for removing core land status from a group that may (or may not) deserve to retain it. This is to create such a mechanism in the event removal becomes necessary.

The vote to demote and vote to remove core-land status are separate votes to happen at the same time.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Azus » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:40 pm

Suppose Wyvern's Spur lost core land status. What is there to stop me from moving my credits to Ashen Spire, call AS my home land, and every week 'visit' Wyvern's Spur?

Obviously, while I could declare for office in Ashen Spire, if the rest of AS actually elected me, they'd me totally nuts.

(I also like the idea of at-large voting member status. )
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby deimos » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:22 pm

If there was a person with that kind of dedication and effort, I would hope they would put half that into making their park successful.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Collin the Red » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:39 pm

We could add to the provision that any current standing member of WM leadership (Monarchy, GMR, Rules Rep, or BoD) coming from that land can finish their term with full powers of office, but can not run for an additional term until the land has returned to Core-status which would take at least one year as they would need to (re)gain barony status, and get approved by althing.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Porkins » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:05 pm

I think if a Kingdom officer is a part of a land going through so much trouble as to lose core status, they have more important things to focus on other than running the Kingdom. Likewise anyone who does not notice or does not care enough to help the local park, does not sound like an officer the Kingdom needs.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Fiks » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:01 am

I had thought that the system already worked as Collin proposed, but a quick review of the corpora notes that an officer of WM must be a voting member in a core land. So as soon as a land loses its Core status, it could be interpreted that the officer would immediately lose their voting membership status and thus be ineligible to be an officer of WM.

With this in mind, let me ask thus: if I'm, say, Regent of WM, and I let my dues paid status expire, does that mean I lose my position immediately? Similar situation, I feel, and how we typically handle the dues paid expiring situation should inform how we should handle an officer coming from a land that loses its Core status during their term.
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Re: Corpora change proposal: demotion of land from core stat

Postby Laoric » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:44 am

Fiks wrote:I had thought that the system already worked as Collin proposed, but a quick review of the corpora notes that an officer of WM must be a voting member in a core land. So as soon as a land loses its Core status, it could be interpreted that the officer would immediately lose their voting membership status and thus be ineligible to be an officer of WM.

With this in mind, let me ask thus: if I'm, say, Regent of WM, and I let my dues paid status expire, does that mean I lose my position immediately? Similar situation, I feel, and how we typically handle the dues paid expiring situation should inform how we should handle an officer coming from a land that loses its Core status during their term.



The answer to the first is part is why old corporas made officers dues exempt during their reign, that way they could continue to govern. They had to be dues paid to be elected, though.

Honestly, the easy answer is that we shouldn't elect the type of person who is going to flake on paying $10 during the reign. I'm all for legislating for the least common denominator, but I don't know that we need to do so in this case. Social stigma is a powerful force in this game when it comes to leadership. It seems to do a decent job of keeping our officers honest. Or, conversely, of keeping dishonest officers from getting elected.
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