activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch eve

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activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch eve

Postby ravenb » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:53 am

Hi, Raven here again. I had a second item I wanted to open for discussion.
At FOM, both Friday and Saturday nights there was a movie, popcorn and root beer floats provided for the children. There were also a few adults who hung out and watched the movies as well. I helped both nights, and really enjoyed having something available to give me a place to hang out, relax, and stay on site where there was no drinking. Please let me qualify by saying I don't care who drinks or not, just that it was nice (for me) to have this activity provided. It gave me another thing to do, with my 14 year old son, where it was age-appropriate and allowed us to hang out a bit. There was alcohol on the table before the movie started, but it was removed well before the movie started.
I know adults can set up Magic games, but even providing board games with a kid-oriented theme could be an option?
I have seen Amtgard promoted as a "family" event, and I like to see the little kids out there swinging swords and chasing Monkey. I also think that it is primarily an adult activity, so finding a compromise and at least providing something for everyone is nice. Maybe more adults would come if they could bring their children with them rather than finding another place for their kids to stay for a weekend.
I really wouldn't want to see this turn into a "babysitting" service either. But I wanted to continue what I thought was an excellent solution to the discussion before FOM, and offer to help with this aspect of Westmarch events, e.g. next year's FOM. Should there be some events, e.g. Darkshore, that cater more to adults only?
Thoughts? Ideas?
Yours truly,
Raven Skullsmasher of the Duchy of Thor's Refuge
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Azus » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:19 am

I like the idea of continuing an area that's got movies and a booze free policy, assuming it's used.
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Griffin » Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:30 pm

Providing an alcohol and/or smoke free zone is a wonderful idea that I fully support.

Creating, endorsing, or advertising events specifically for children is, regrettably, an idea that we cannot pursue under any circumstances. We live in a ludicrously litigious country, and California is far, far from the bottom of the list of lawsuit-happy states. The SCA is still reeling from an incident involving their children's activities in 2007, and they actually have enough money to pay lawyers. If we begin sponsoring activities for children, the first problem may well spell the end of Amtgard in California.

Alright, that last sentence is a bit on the alarmist side, but the point stands.

I have no problem with children being on site at any Westmarch, but their parents or duly appointed legal guardians must be the only ones responsible for their activities. The minute anything's official, we run the risk of being liable, and we can't afford to take that risk.

I, of course, am not a lawyer. I encourage you to read the much more succinct thoughts of someone who is on the E-Sam thread about this same topic: http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=680466#p680466.

If we absolutely must have formal children's events, it's worth noting the Amtgard/BL BoD position on children's events:
BL BoD wrote:In case anyone missed it in the minutes of the BOD. I am posting this here because it will affect kids quest and other activites. The Kingdom of The Burning Lands has decided that all group or kingdom sponsored youth activites at our parks or events will require a parent to be present. This is a liability issue for the kingdom and the individuals running the activities. We do not run background checks on youth volunteers, we do not offer training or any type of certification for those working with children. Effective immediately parental presence will be required for children participating in youth activities.
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Ka'a Acklie » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:03 pm

Finally found time to give feedback as the organizer of the movie nights.

I really enjoyed how fast this all came together, however Friday night was a bit of a let down.

I waited till 8:30 to start the movie and because the only people interested were over 21 and had booze in hand/been drinking and were a touch tipsy. I let them bring in the booze at 9pm, but no active drinking, and they were told right off the bat if they made trouble I was taking the booze and tossing them out. All went well, though I heard one parent made an official complaint, but they couldn't tell me when or who made the complaint, just that they showed up and took their kid away because they saw booze sitting on a table (which means that it had to have been past 9pm and they were really late).

Saturday night went amazingly! We had half a dozen kids, some adults, and I had a few people poke their heads into the kitchen to chat and see what it was like. Sir Eggman and his girlfriend (Alisha is her real name and I can't remember her Amtgard name for the life of me) popped in to see what we were up to and commented on how amazing it was that I was showing a movie with subtitles to kids. The kids had chosen to watch it in subtitles, which I think is awesome.

In future I think I'll continue to organize these (if allowed to), and that Fridays will turn into an all are welcome (no straight hard liquor, no sex/makingout, no talking, aka no being a basic/drunken pain in the ass). Saturdays will be a kids/under21/sober only night (no booze and if you have been drinking, you are not welcome in the doors). I'd prefer to not hold down the fort Saturday, but will unless we get 2 adults to handle it I shall be there. I'd like to just set up, and make sure no technical difficulties happen, but please understand I do not have kids and belong to a couple drinking houeholds as well as have a belted family that enjoys their mead. We also got a portable firepit to kick the night off with smores come Darkhore.

I want to give a huge shout out to the people that helped me clean up. We managed to do all the dishes, clean and mop the floors, sort the food stuff, get a few people that had lent things to the kitchen their things back, and make it super easy for the kitchen to get closed up in the morning. Sir Blackthorn also donated soda, and we got donations of ice cream and soda for the floats from a couple people.


We're really looking at catering to a few groups with the movie nights:
The kids
The people that are under 21
The people that don't have anyone to hangout with because they are new/awkward
The ones not interested in getting really drunk or hooking up, but might come with significant other and have a beer in hand.

I don't see why these people cannot mingle at something as calm as a movie. Some people do drink responsibly and I'm hoping that Friday night we can invite them to the movie night. Just a personal opinion: I think that it's important for kids to see that you can enjoy alcohol responsibly, not just that alcohol makes you vomit (that means you're doing it wrong).


As for games for kids to play, I'm not willing to organize this. I think it'll be loud and there is potential for people's property to get damaged (sticky fingers, spilled drinks, lost pieces). I'm also hesitant for it to take place in the same room as the movie night, as the movie needs a quiet room. What I suggest is if someone wants to take this up is that they get one of the camping areas marked off for this (could be declared a dry/kids area too) and I can bring my 2 folding tables for them to use. I do not recommend the main area for this as there is loud music, drunk/loud/horny people, and if the goal is to keep kids away from this then the main picnic area is NOT the place.

If you did help cleaning up at the movie night please pm me. I want to make sure I get your name so I can make sure you get the recognition you deserve and so I can say hi when we next see each other (I also get really shy why saying hi and I don't know your name).

Thank you all again,

Lady Ka'a
Fru Squire Ka'a F Acklie

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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Faye » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:30 pm

As a non-drinking person, I dig the idea of a non-drinking area. I would be fine if kids are also in an non-drinking area, so long as their parents are with them and are responsible for them.

However - see Griffin's post. We cannot do "kid's events". It is not a good idea. We can do "dry moving-showings", and that's fine. But kids are the responsibility of their parents. As soon as anyone else is managing a group of kids, it is a huge liability issue.
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Fiks » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:49 pm

I'm for designating a space. Build it and they will come, and all that. But like Faye and Griffin said, the parents/guardians have to be involved. Amtgard is not a babysitting service. If someone is willing to be responsible for the well fare of some minors for a night: bravo. I'd recommend and doing some homework on guardianship laws before then though, but that's just my personal opinion.
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Ka'a Acklie » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:55 pm

Then do we scrap movie nights? Do we set them up like Friday night so that it's for all and not just the kids?

I'm seeing a lot of shutting down of ideas instead of new ideas being presented.

We're already liable due to member age being 14.
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Tiquara Wolfsbane » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:29 pm

This last FOM was my first, and I had a great time. I also took on the responsibility of the minors from our park. I had 7 kids under 18, 3 under 21, and 2 who were non drinking adults in my camp.

I, personally, do not believe it is Westmarch responsibility to entertain our kids. His is primarily an adult organization and events are mainly geared towards them. They should not be made to change their ways because of kids.
Solution?
Why don't people simply do what we did..... seperate themselves from the influence. Simple.
We choose a campsite away from the others. Still close to everythibg, but it was far enough away from the parties and even most the noise. Kids had no trouble sleeping. We played Magic and other card games, had a campfire, and played movies every night. Being our camp was not little kids, the movies we showed were to the intrest of the older kids, Dracula Untold, Monty Python, and even Heavy Metal.

Parks with people under 21 should be responsible enough to designate a chaperone and have a seperate camp for their underage people. Come on, people, it's not hard..... if I can do it, anyone can!

What can Westmarch do to help? Perhaps set aside the camp space for these underage camps. If there re several groups togetherness underage people, they themselves can figure out ways to keep entertained when there is no activities happening. Besides watching movies, we roast marshmellows, played games and hey.... here's a new thing.... we put down the electronics and TALKED. All my kids had a blast.

As far as other things that can be added to help out the kids, how about some actual Amtgard stuff, like tournaments and such for younger age groups..... I know that the fighting is the adult thing, but the kids try their best to compete with the big boys.... my daughter got the crap beat out of her on Saturday and kept going, something I am so very proud of her for doing. But I am sure there would be enough for a small tourney for the 18 and under. My 12 year old fights, takes her hits, but is always up against big guys. Would be nice to see her and my 16 year old have a chance.....

Thanks to everyone who put on FOM, and you can bet I will have even more under 18 kids there next year with our new Academy of the Silver Talon being put together right now.
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Re: activities for kids and non-drinking adults at Westmarch

Postby Azus » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:01 am

I like the idea of a 'quiet' area. Adults +- kids welcome, movie or games. Beers might be welcome, no loud drunk people, no hard liquor. Kids have a legal guardian around.

This satisfies the desire for a kids friendly area, as well as adults wanting a quiet spot to chill, while avoiding the pitfalls the lawyer noted about an official, Westmarch sponsored (and potentially Westmarch liable) kids area. AFter all, if the guardian is with the kids, the guardian still has primary responsibility.
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