Siar Geata intrested in Westmarch

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Siar Geata intrested in Westmarch

Postby LucasTheLost » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:25 pm

We just recently received our BL contract down south, and are looking around for a sponsoring Kingdom. I'm personally leaning towards DS at this time, and membership in a CA-based Principality would be great.

So what can you tell me about Westmarch and your corpora-to-be?

--Sheriff Lucas the Lost
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Postby Grix » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:41 pm

Currently, Westmarch is in the final stages of forming. Once our corpora is approved by the founding lands and Dragonspine, we'll begin elections.

Right now, Westmarch is made up of 5 groups. The Duchy of Wavehaven (Santa Cruz, CA), the Barony of Crimson Wood (Rohnert Park, CA), the Barony of Wyvern's Spur (Berkeley, CA), the Shire of Falcon's Reach (Sacramento, CA), and the Shire of Seven Sleeping Dragons (San Louis Obispo, CA). These groups (assuming they all vote to do so in the final stage of formation) will become the core of Westmarch.

Our focus is to unite Amtgard in California. We're big on intergroup events and a number of us love to travel. The lands are made up of members that span a large range of age and experience.

Those of us that are currently under Dragonspine enjoy an excellent relationship with our kingdom, and we hope to provide to same relationship to any group that signs under Westmarch.

If you're interested in looking through our corpora, you can download the current draft here. Please be aware that it's not a final version and still requires some editing/formatting.

Please post any additional questions you have and I'll be happy to answer them or point you towards someone that can.
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Postby LucasTheLost » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:07 pm

We need to pick a thread. I'll check out the corpora and post any feedback I may have.
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Postby Dame Ailanthus » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:12 pm

I'm responding more to what you said in the other thread, but trying to keep discussion to one thread.
Westmarch isn't able to take any sublands at this point. We are not officially in existance yet. The best way to proceed would be to sign under DS for now, since you would have to, to join WM later. Then later when we are ready, join up. In the mean time, you are doing exactly the right thing, starting talking. I look forward to getting to know you guys, and work together.
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Postby Grix » Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:13 pm

I'm copying the relevant posts from the other thread to this thread and deleting the old one.

Lucas the Lost wrote:Sheriff Lucas the Lost of Siar Geata here.

So how does your corpora differ from DS's? If I have my way at the Althing this Saturday, we'll petition under DS/Westmarch ASAP... so unless there's something glaringly stupid in there ("Anyone named 'Lucas the Lost' may not hold office"), it's an open-and-shut case.

One of the more relevant sections to us will be the requirements to become a Barony. We've been averaging over 20 warm bodies for 6 weeks now, and have had "20 unique names per month" for 4 months next Saturday (unless a plague of locusts keeps us from getting 3 different people out). DS requires a bank account, which we don't have as yet.

Siar Geata maintains their AmtWiki and ORK data, so you might find them informative.

NOTE: The URL in the ORK page is wrong and can no longer be edited through the web interface. A couple requests to Rewth to fix it have gone unanswered.

We Jugged for the first time last week. I think everyone enjoyed it. I had a great time once I switched from flail to S&B.

We have one resident squire (currently deployed with the navy), no knights. All told, we have 9 different transplants, most of whom attend at least every other week. The rest are home-grown, with 1 month to 3 years "in". Those years are mostly with a group that averaged 5 people per week, so not much growth in there.

--Sheriff Lucas the Lost


Grix wrote:The Westmarch corpora is based off of the DS corpora, so they're pretty similar in a lot of areas.

Currently Westmarch has different attendance requirements for barony that DS, but that's because we're moving to a unique monthly attendance system rather than the average weekly attendance system that DS uses.

Westmarch requires an average of 20 unique monthly sign-ins over a 6 month period for Barony. Dragonspine requires an average weekly attendance of 15 people over the same period.
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Postby LucasTheLost » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:04 pm

Grix wrote:Currently Westmarch has different attendance requirements for barony that DS, but that's because we're moving to a unique monthly attendance system rather than the average weekly attendance system that DS uses.

Westmarch requires an average of 20 unique monthly sign-ins over a 6 month period for Barony. Dragonspine requires an average weekly attendance of 15 people over the same period.


I didn't get that from my reading of your proposed corpora. "20 members" for barony. What constitutes a member? A VOTING MEMBER has to come out 6 weeks out of 3 months... but that's not once a month. No attendance stipulation is placed on the non-voting member. You might want to add some verbiage to that effect.

I'll check our records from February, but I doubt we had 20 different people then... the holidays kicked our collective asses.

A second reading answered another of my questions, so no worries about tithing for us. "Oh no, they're going to take away the voting rights we don't have!". Yeah... Core groups only. Got it.

I suggest an "Email" line on your waiver form. That's always handy.

Ah... Your corpora defines a 'travel credit' based on the distance from Berkley. By that measure, every member of my park will always get travel credits.

PM's don't need to qualify?!
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Postby Tremere » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:10 pm

I just wanted to jump in as Siar Geata's Champion.

Is there anything that we need to do prior to joining the Confederation of Westmarch?

Should we petition Dragonspine for membership first? At Figther practice tonight Iwill lead a discussion about Westmarch and the corpora.

So far in our search for a new kingdom / sponsoring group Westmarch has the most promise and we are really excited about it.
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Postby LucasTheLost » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:17 pm

Oh... bonus credits? We currently have a system in place where people can earn up to two credits from a given friend. I see no provision for it in your corpora, even from a King/Emperor/Grand High Poo-bah.

10 years hard age limit: We have an eight-year old who participates regularly, along with his father... (mostly his father). He's our premier assassin, a sneaky little bugger. I'd really rather not be forced to ban him for a couple years. As yet we've had no concerns for his safety. I don't want to drive off dad either.
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Postby Tremere » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:23 pm

Although I do not really mind the 350 miles from Berkely for travel credits... It would make hitting that 8 credits a month pretty doable :D
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Postby Grix » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:41 pm

LucasTheLost wrote:I didn't get that from my reading of your proposed corpora. "20 members" for barony. What constitutes a member? A VOTING MEMBER has to come out 6 weeks out of 3 months... but that's not once a month. No attendance stipulation is placed on the non-voting member. You might want to add some verbiage to that effect.

This is covered in Article VIII Section 1.4

"For the purposes of determining attendance in a sponsored chapter, a land size is determined by the six-month average of unique members that attend each month."

As for individual attendance requirements, those only matter for voting. In other words, all an individual needs to do to count towards land attendance is to have a waiver signed in your land and show up, even if it's only once (though the attendance would obviously only count for the month they showed up).

LucasTheLost wrote:Ah... Your corpora defines a 'travel credit' based on the distance from Berkley. By that measure, every member of my park will always get travel credits.

You are correct. Obviously, this should be ammended to allow for travel originating from a point outside of the core groups.

LucasTheLost wrote:PM's don't need to qualify?!

I've never heard of an amtgard group where the PM needs to qualify.
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Postby Grix » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:52 pm

LucasTheLost wrote:Oh... bonus credits? We currently have a system in place where people can earn up to two credits from a given friend. I see no provision for it in your corpora, even from a King/Emperor/Grand High Poo-bah.
The corpora currently only allows for bonus credits at the discretion of the monarch for attendance at amtgard events (feats, large events, etc.). I've always felt that bonus credits for bringing out new members and things like that are a good incentive. I can't speak for all of WM, but if your land chose to vote to do something along those lines, it would probably be given an ok from up here and possibly included in the overall corpora.

LucasTheLost wrote:10 years hard age limit: We have an eight-year old who participates regularly, along with his father... (mostly his father). He's our premier assassin, a sneaky little bugger. I'd really rather not be forced to ban him for a couple years. As yet we've had no concerns for his safety. I don't want to drive off dad either.

A number of people have differing viewpoints on this subject. During my reigns as Duke, I allowed a number of young children to participate but I think the youngest was 11. These kinds of things are difficult as they need to be decided on a case by case basis, but 8 just feels too young even with a parent present. Perhaps you could find another way to include him until he's old enough, or just keep his involvement limited to sparring on the side? That's what currently happens with some of our VERY YOUNG members.
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Postby Grix » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:00 pm

Tremere wrote:I just wanted to jump in as Siar Geata's Champion.

Is there anything that we need to do prior to joining the Confederation of Westmarch?

Should we petition Dragonspine for membership first? At Figther practice tonight Iwill lead a discussion about Westmarch and the corpora.

So far in our search for a new kingdom / sponsoring group Westmarch has the most promise and we are really excited about it.


You should definately start the process by petitioning DS for membership. That way, when Westmarch is ready to include sublands, you'll be all set. Also, if for any reason Westmarch were to fall through, you'd already be under a solid kingdom that already has ties to California amtgard.
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Postby Tremere » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:21 pm

Grix wrote:A number of people have differing viewpoints on this subject. During my reigns as Duke, I allowed a number of young children to participate but I think the youngest was 11. These kinds of things are difficult as they need to be decided on a case by case basis, but 8 just feels too young even with a parent present. Perhaps you could find another way to include him until he's old enough, or just keep his involvement limited to sparring on the side? That's what currently happens with some of our VERY YOUNG members.


The only thing wrong I se with this is that the other corporas I have seen left it up to the discretion of the Monarch. As it is now there is no discretion given to the Monarch as it is a hard rule limit.

On top of that this kid has been playing with us for almost a year now and we have never had any problems.... I honestly have no idead how old he is.
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Postby Grix » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:26 pm

Tremere wrote:
Grix wrote:A number of people have differing viewpoints on this subject. During my reigns as Duke, I allowed a number of young children to participate but I think the youngest was 11. These kinds of things are difficult as they need to be decided on a case by case basis, but 8 just feels too young even with a parent present. Perhaps you could find another way to include him until he's old enough, or just keep his involvement limited to sparring on the side? That's what currently happens with some of our VERY YOUNG members.


The only thing wrong I se with this is that the other corporas I have seen left it up to the discretion of the Monarch. As it is now there is no discretion given to the Monarch as it is a hard rule limit.

On top of that this kid has been playing with us for almost a year now and we have never had any problems.... I honestly have no idead how old he is.


The problem with very young amtgard members is that at a small home park where everyone knows them, they're fine. The difficulty/problems usually don't start to come up until you get visitors or new members that aren't used to them. I don't know how many times I've spun around to swing at someone in another land only to find out that it was a little kid and I was swinging at his head level instead of his chest level.

Again, I can't speak for all of WM, but I'm sure some sort of compromise could be reached. We're not THAT inflexible.
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Postby Laoric » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:33 pm

Tremere wrote:
The only thing wrong I se with this is that the other corporas I have seen left it up to the discretion of the Monarch. As it is now there is no discretion given to the Monarch as it is a hard rule limit.

On top of that this kid has been playing with us for almost a year now and we have never had any problems.... I honestly have no idead how old he is.


This, to me, is a "See no evil, hear no evil" issue. The 10 year old limit is a valid way for a land to avoid the issue of underage people wanting to play in a dangerous environment. If your land feels its environment is not a danger to an eight year old, then by all means let him play.

Be advised, however, when he travels he may get potentially injured by people bigger than him.
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