V8 Playtest April 20th

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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Randy » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:20 pm

Not to mention the kingdom monarchs have approved play testing thus far. If the people didn't like it, they would have discussed that with their monarch
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Rose » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:32 pm

I'm not saying it is or is not fun. My point is, from reading, a lot of the people who seem to be upset really seem to be upset that their opinions were not asked. And a complete rewrite is different than changing a few things here and there. A couple classes have been changed before, but nothing of this scope. My major point is, accusing people who voice concerns about their opinions is not going to be helped by calling them conspiracy theorists or saying they just don't want change. Change may have to happen, but that doesn't make disliking change a invalid opinion. It means that maybe both sides need to open their minds and negotiate a little more. There are really cool things to v8. There are cool things that are getting left behind. I'm just sick of all the name calling that seems to go with v8 discussions. If we want to switch without loosing players people need to stop ram rodding anyone who disagrees. Disagreeing is valid. We all love amt gard, we all put a lot of work into it, and that is where everyone is coming from. That is the mutual ground we need to stand on.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Griffin » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:37 pm

People are being asked. People are literally being given years to respond to the changes put forth. The feedback email, forum discussion, and 8 months last year of Brennon appearing to be a professional and reasonable person are far more input than I ever had into 7.1, .2, .5, etc.

If you have a problem with v8, please, please speak up while you can. Email the committee, post on eSam, bribe evil Randy to post for you, or find some other way to communicate any and all issues you have with the system. If you think it's a terrible idea and shouldn't happen at all, you could even get in touch with our (Dragonspine's) representative on the CoM this year.

They're taking input, and collecting votes from our elected representatives - but that only works if we tell the rules committee and our rules rep what we think.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Rose » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:32 am

My qualm here is not with v8, or even the committee people. Its with the mentality of saying things like "this isn't a conspiracy theory" to people who disagree. My qualm is with the other people on e-sam and at parks who suggest anyone who disagrees is over reacting. We realize this is not some big conspiracy thing. We realize the people working on this are giving it a lot of time and effort. I wouldn't want to see anyone accusing them if doing changes for some personal means either. We are, for the most part, all adults. We don't have to be rude to each other to get points across.
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then the trophies of all who have risen on liberty's ruin to fame!
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Azus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:36 am

Email the rulebook directly instead of using e-sam. E-sam, while a great resource, also has a number of assholes on it: some of who will insult people who post concerns (which seems to be what you're referring to); and some of whom have said this is a conspiracy by Brennon to rewrite the rulebook himself to change Amtgard to how he plays and to change the ruleset to the weapons he prefers to use and sell. The "this isn't a conspiracy" line to which you take offence is directed at the people who have proposed conspiracy theories, and not the the people who have valid concerns.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Etah » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:26 am

Azus wrote:The "this isn't a conspiracy" line to which you take offence is directed at the people who have proposed conspiracy theories, and not the the people who have valid concerns.


This.

No few people who disagree with the V8 rules set have decided that Sir Brennon (Knight of the Sword), who is heading up the v8 committee, is purposely creating a rules set with the goal of ruining their role playing, and pushing the Amtgard paradigm more to the stick jock side the game. None of which is true, as is the case with most conspiracies.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Scorch Flamedancer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:14 pm

I have a question... the facebook page concerning the rule set, are any of the suggestions/modifications/complaints being taken into serious consideration? Or is it just to let the people think they have real input while the oligarchy does what it wills (even if they have good intentions)? I know that several people have addressed different aspects of the game repeatedly, but mostly they're told to be quiet by other amtgarders, or that their concern is invalid, or any and all means of negative feedback to any such suggestion, and then the revised version comes out and said change hasn't been addressed in it. I'm just curious.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Guyvas » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:07 pm

There have been several ideas from the fb group that have been integrated into the rules
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Scorch Flamedancer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:56 pm

Good to know
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Hannoske » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:28 pm

If you have something specific you would like conveyed, I am close (in the personal sense, not locality) to a few people on the committee.

Some things that the committee wants are clear and specific feedback. They realize they overhauled a lot of what we today see as the core of the game. An example of what the committee would like to see:

We playtested a mutual annihilation battlegame with 15 people to a side. The teams were roughly equal with skill, rules familiarization and class composition.

Additionally we allowed the use of 4 Magic Scrolls. We found that allowing scroll of dispel gave too big of a power boost to Archers. They now had the ability to dispel buffs, ignore protective enchantments, and blast through armor with excessive repetition making them rule the field as a single class.

We ran 4 other battlegames with the same team/class competition and found that the Charge incant made it almost impossible to actually charge an ability. The length held players out of the engagement for too long, and really seemed like a win more button, not something to help turn the tides, or even as a basic utility.

Or perhaps you want to suggest a new idea:

In our playtests over the last 3 months, we feel like healers don't have the staying power, even with full team support they aren't able to defend themselves. In order to fix this, I recommend we add Superpower I win.

Superpower I win allows a healer to cast Greater Resurrection on themselves preemptively, with a delayed trigger so it will resurrect the healer when they die. This should be a 6th level metamagic, cost 3, max 1, use 1/life.

Things like "Monks always kill me when I play Wizard, they are too powerful nerf them." don't work well, and won't help. Monks are designed to beat wizards, they almost always should.

I hope that helps with your interaction. Additionally, if a member of the Committee is derogatory towards you, let me know who. I will have a chat and see if we can resolve it. The actually committee members will treat intelligence with respect.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Randy » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:14 pm

Brennen was also the leader of v7. Rose is right though, v8 came out of nowhere a few years ago and not many people trusted in another rewrite (v7 was a horrible rewrite) but the lessons learned fom v7 along with a growing maturity level of the game and the developers have created a good system that takes into consideration everyone's play style. And though I ak one of th assholes from esam, I recommend everyone get on there and voice your opinion loud and proud. Best way to shut us up is with logic and honesty. Also, they are much more toned down from ten or even five years ago.
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Re: V8 Playtest April 20th

Postby Rose » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:56 am

I have abandoned the now useless scout class and have been doing archer for the last few playtests.

Archer is pretty fun. It didn't used to be all that impressive, but now there are cool things archers can do at first level. Poison arrow is a lot more useful now then it was in v7, and what's more the effects are easier to both understand and call. No pesky counting system to take your attention from trying to shoot other people. I think that the armor rules for arrows are still too complicated.

I mean, I really would have rather had an over simplification. Like arrows ignore leather armor, do 1 point against chain and are ignored by plate. (yes
I'm a bow user who is suggesting arrows be ignored. I think if you go out in full plate mail armor you should get a supper buff.) Then I could shoot someone and know pretty well how it would effect them. Right now I kind of just shoot at armor people to annoy them but I can't tell just by looking at them if my arrows destroy their armor or do one point. (And no, I don't think a guy in armor surrounded by sword men is going to take the time to tell me a breakdown of his armor condition, if he even feels the arrow! The better his armor is made, the more accidental sluffing through non feeling will happen.)

The thing I liked about old armor rules was, I could tell pretty easy if someone was wearing high enough grade armor that I'd have to get a few shots in. Plate generaly meant shoot twice (with longbow) Almost everyone else would at least go down to zip armor with one shot. It wasn't the not having to shoot them a bunch that I liked, though of course who doesn't like killing opponents quickly, but it was the fact it was fairly simple. I called out the shot of "4" as I shot, and anyone who didn't call dead on third shot I could remind they didn't possibly have 12 point armor. Now someone could sit there soaking up arrow after arrow with 2 point armor and I could never call them on it just by looks. Maybe its plate that got marked down for poor craftsmanship and inethentic materials. Maybe its leather that got marked up for the opposite. I just really want a simple way of telling if someone is rushing me, should I wait for them to get close and shoot, or get the hell out of there.
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