Discussion/Information about the Duchy of Siar Geata

Moderators: Scorch Flamedancer, LucasTheLost, Scoot


Postby hamster_mk_4 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:42 pm

I have had an idea to reproduce muskets for pirate themed battle games:

There will be an experimental class called a Musketeer. The class can only use daggers, short swords, and pole arms. They have one spell "shoot musket" for which they must carry with them 5 cards with the numbers 1-5 written on them. The spell works in two phases, loading and firing.

To load the Musketeer must be stationary, recite and mime the following incantation:
Bite.... Prime.... Pour.... Tap..... Spit..... Tap.... Loaded
While they do this they must also randomly select a card and put it against the side of the musket so nobody can see it.

To fire the musket they must be within 15 feet of the target, point the musket at the target, and say "Fire #target name# Pick a number between 1 and 5." The target is frozen until they choose a number at which point the musketeer reveals their card. If the two numbers match the target is dead. If the numbers don't match the musketeer missed and the target becomes unfrozen and may continue fighting normally.

If there are more than one musketeer on a team they can elect to "volley fire." The process to load the musket remains the same and must be completed by each musketeer that wishes to participate in the volley fire. A musketeer or designated officer commands the musketeers to "ready" or level their muskets. Then picks a target within 15 feet of all the musketeers, and yells "Volley fire #target name# pick a number between 1 and 5" the target player is frozen and must pick one number. That number is compared to the cards of all the musketeers participating in the volley fire. If at least one matches they die.

* The officer may call fire by ranks where only the front rank, middle rank, or rear rank volley fire their muskets while the other ranks reload.
* If a player stops miming the reload action to defend them selves or move they must start the reload from scratch.
* The Musketeer may move normally once the reload is complete (may have to change to hold the loaded musket strait up to indicate it is loaded)
* The "Shoot Musket" spell must have line of sight of the target when the Fire or Volley Fire verbal is given.
* Musketeers may fight normally with their weapons once the musket or pistol is discharged. At least until the next reload.
* If there are not enough pole arms the musketeer may use a dagger as a pistol, but must go through the same loading and shooting sequence (including the miming) as a full sized musket.

Pending play testing (assuming enough people like this to give it a try) we may have to change the number of cards, range, reload incantation, instant kill vs point off armor, or randomly choosing a card that may have arm/leg/torso written on it.
User avatar
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:55 pm

Re: Muskets

Postby Rose » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:16 am

Yeah, just off the bat I'd say have specific numbers be limb shots. For this to be effective I'd say you'd need more chance of successful hits...

But it sounds fun. I defiantly want to try it out. :)
Far dearer the grave or the prision illumed by one patriot name,
then the trophies of all who have risen on liberty's ruin to fame!
(Forget no the field, Thomas Moore)
User avatar
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:37 am

Re: Muskets

Postby Collin the Red » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:27 am

With a one in five chance, it seems unlikely anyone would use this. If there is a way of increasing the odds in the musketeers favor, like if they have used the skill in one battle game, the next one the musketeer has only 4 cards. A Bow hits more often, given this is a kill spell with no immunities (unless I missed it) it is powerful, but a 1 in 5 chance makes it a weak spell. I would make it a warrior sub-class (like magic users and Archer have, in which case only 6th level warriors could do it) giving up their shield, some weapons, and maybe one or two abilities then leaving them armor and scavenge etc.

Also, instead of a new class or sub-class, this could be a Monster class, maybe make the chance to hit based on level at 6th level, the target picks a number and if it matches, the Musketeer misses. Or range might be the hit or miss factor?

Also, maybe a "miss" hits a limb, or armor? or causes stopped for 30 seconds?

I would like to hear how play testing goes on this.
Baron Collin MacAbee current King of Westmarch
Squire to Sir Smiley
User avatar
Collin the Red
Posts: 2359
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:11 pm
Location: Thor's Refuge

Re: Muskets

Postby hamster_mk_4 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:52 am

Maybe nine cards with 1-torsoe, 2-torsoe, 3-torsoe, 1-arm, 2-arm, 3-arm, 1-leg, 2-leg, 3-leg on them.

Also I have noticed when moving with a loaded musket redcoats hold the musket like this:
Perhaps to keep the ball from falling out. This could be a movement rule that the musket can not be carried horizontally while moving and loaded to indicate it is loaded.
User avatar
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:55 pm

Re: Muskets

Postby hamster_mk_4 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:30 am

With regard to Collin's post the monster class would make more sense, I am not trying to add a major PC class or change amtgard into a post gunpowder world.

The 1-5 was made up with the idea of volley fire where 3 musketeers would have a better than 50% chance of making a kill and 5 musketeers would be lethal. After shooting musketeers are a bunch of people with short spears unless the enemy does not close distance in the time it takes to reload.

Now that I think about it 1/3 chance of a hit 2/3 chance of a limb hit might make the class a bit more balanced. I think the class should be balanced against the archer class. Archer's can't melee with their primary weapon, were more accurate, and had longer range than musketeers. They are more like an offensive version of the monk. They don't have access to the full complement of shields and armor but get a powerful ability for specific situations.
User avatar
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:55 pm

Re: Muskets

Postby Scorch Flamedancer » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:54 pm

Something I've been reading over that I want to definitely apply to this reign of Pirates vs Royal Navy is things from the Nautical Nights flurb book. It has some ideas and encants that I want to borrow for our purposes. One things I really want to dig my heels in with is if you look the part (or if you roleplay) for a Pirate/Sailor, you get a firebolt once per refresh with the encant "I only have one shot, and I didn't want to waste it, so I've saved it for you _____(insert name here)". Also something I read was if you have a dagger in hand, treat it like a hook, so it's a natural weapon.
My body is my sword, my mind is my blade. Without them, I would be nothing.
User avatar
Scorch Flamedancer
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:58 pm
Location: Siar Geata, Carlsbad

Re: Muskets

Postby Nico » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:40 pm

Forgive me if I'm butchering your idea or anything, but isn't it a bit backwards to fit probability of "hitting" a target into a verbal spell? There's already a mechanic for that built into the game that is easily understood--spellballs. The same paradigm of 2 or 3 or 5 people "firing" (or throwing) all at once still exists. The only difference is that it's based on both player's skill to hit and succeed as opposed to a random chance which is fun for neither player.

The card idea is very cool in terms of flavor, though; a part of me wonders if it wouldn't work retooled to be like tarot cards on a gypsy-esque class.
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 1:56 pm

Re: Muskets

Postby Rose » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:07 pm

To answer the question of why soldiers held muskets up in the air.

There was the element of balls falling out, but most of the time when they are moving like this, the weapons are not ready to fire. When you have people moving coordinated in column things go smoother if everyone holds their weapon in the most out of the way position possible. Up prevents accidentally stabbing with the bayonet if the person's around you do sudden unexpected stops.
Far dearer the grave or the prision illumed by one patriot name,
then the trophies of all who have risen on liberty's ruin to fame!
(Forget no the field, Thomas Moore)
User avatar
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:37 am

Re: Muskets

Postby hamster_mk_4 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:03 pm

To be completely honest I dreamed this up as a way of seducing my redcoat reenacter friends into the hobby.

As to why I want this to be a random chance verbal instead of a spell ball:
Spell balls tend to be used very opportunistically, often the spell ball will be charged and held in the off hand waiting for you opponent to be distracted or close enough that they can't dodge. If a group of players tried to Volly firing spell balls they would loose the surprise factor or the opportunity to throw at ideal range.

The individual musket is meant to be a low threat while fighting individually but a bigger threat when fighting in a close group. Thus encouraging musketeers to fight in close formation. It would also allow for a new player who is not familiar with the best way to throw a spell ball or read an incant super fast to contribute to a fight in a meaningful manner by sticking with their team instead of running off and looking for backs to stab.

Lastly there is the melee readiness, throwing a spell ball means you have an empty hand right after you throw the spell ball. It is not in your best interest to close and fight if your spell ball failed. Where as if you are using a musket/spear or Pistol/dagger you are ready to fight the moment your spell misses.
User avatar
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:55 pm

Re: Muskets

Postby Porkins » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:41 pm

Nautical Nights wrote: Flintlocks
Two different schools of thought have emerged on how to best represent the flintlock in boffer games, the Spellball Approach and the Verbal Method. The pro’s and con’s of each are discussed below. Whichever you decide is best for your game, some rules hold true for both variations. It should go without saying: be sure everyone involved in the quest is not only alerted to, but thoroughly versed in, the presence of these weapons on the field.
1. All flintlocks should be crafted from foam, tape and
cloth, just like any other Amtgard weapon.
2. Pistols are never used to strike in melee.
3. The flintlock is charged by standing still and saying
“Loading” x30, then “Pow”, “Bang” or similar gun noise
when activated.
4. Flintlocks are effected by all spells and abilities, just like
any other wooden weapon.
5. The flintlock must be undamaged, and in hand, in order
to fire. The hand carrying a flintlock can carry nothing else
(except ammunition, if appropriate).
6. Once the “gun noise” is made, the weapon must be
discharged within 2 seconds or it is considered “misfired”
and must be reloaded again before use.
· Spellball Approach:
Each flintlock comes with a single, silver spellball. To charge the flintlock, stand still and recite the incantation above. The spellball is treated as an Armor-Piercing
attack. Removes one point of Invulnerability, and is foiled by Protection from or Immunity to Projectiles . These spellballs can be recovered and reused at the Reeve’s option, or players may “return fire” with any expended ammo found laying around. Regardless, a player can only carry one such spellball at a time.
· Verbal Method:
Each flintlock can be used to “cast” two Wounding and one Finger of Death per game. These are non-magical effects, and regular class immunities offer no protection. Both effects are stopped by Protection from or Immunity to Projectiles , and remove one point of Invulnerability per use. To activate: load the weapon, point it at the target and shout the target’s name, make a gun noise and then the desired effect’s incantation.
Muskets, being much longer and sturdier, could substitute as a melee weapon in a pinch. Thus, all boff muskets must be constructed like an Amtgard-legal polearm, and
decorated as befits the weapon type (brown body, silver or gray barrel). Muskets follow all the rules for flintlocks above,
but can be used in combat

Whenever I bring out my Musket we normally use the verbal method, with V8 I can see adding a large charge incant to wounding to make them more useful in the longer battlegames.
In times like these, it's helpful to remember that there have always been times like these- Paul Harvey
User avatar
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:40 am

Re: Muskets

Postby Aidenn Ketla » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:16 pm

I am not a pirate person.

I do enjoy the premise of this class, though. My biggest concern is I don't think it's in fair keeping with the current V8 write-up.

It seems slow, cumbersome, and unreliable compared to the pace of the other classes right now. It also does not sit nicely within the current "Class X counters Class Y and is countered by Class Z" theory of balance v8 is running on.

I see potential. I see the opportunity to fine-tune this and make it a playable, verbals-or-throwies (either through the spellball or a less "random" verbal setup) alternative for Archer - both for flavor, and for a workaround for the lands that cannot use bows due to legal limitations.

This idea has merit. And I don't think the spellball idea is out of line. I like the short weapons limitation, feels very pirate-y. To me, the "opportune nature" of spellballs in combat draws an easy parallel to a black powder pistol. You get one shot in a melee environment, and are forced to the sidelines to "reload" or continue into the fray with melee force.

The problem I see with getting this to fly on a gamewide scale is getting people over the whole "no representations of black powder weaponry" bit in the rules.

Just my two cents.
Lord Aidenn "Dusk" Ketla
Aidenn Ketla
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Fal Dare, Carson City, NV

Return to Duchy of Siar Geata - Oceanside, CA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests